Learning to fly with TF 4.3

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Learning to fly with TF 4.3

Post  StiC on Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:04 am

So last night DNR, Badfinger and I were on ATAG. I initiated 3 engagements, all of which I had the positional and energy advantage, but I was thwarted each time when I misjudged the new FMs of the Spit Ia. I did manage to bag 1 with DNR, and I never died from enemy action.

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Re: Learning to fly with TF 4.3

Post  Wolverine on Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:33 pm

I'm willing to bet that the problem was the new stall characteristics when pulling hard turns.

We'll have to practice the lag pursuit method of catching an opponent. We're used to pulling hard to try and gain a high deflection shot against an enemy with inferior turn.

While we still have very good turn rates, that advantage disappears as we lose our airspeed. So if you pull hard for that deflection shot, you might get it but very quickly you'll start to lose control. Instead, follow just behind his tail and wait him out. You'll easily be able to keep the turn, and you'll lose less speed and remain in control. Eventually, he will lose too much air speed and be unable to keep his turn, or you will eventually be able to get into a firing position as the circling continues.

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Spitfire FM

Post  Speed on Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:38 pm

To back up StiCs observations, both he and I nailed a 109 simultaneously with venting and black smoke pouring out of the 109, and he simply pushed his nose down and outran us. I stayed with him for a good five minutes, but when my spidy senses began to tingle, I banked right and spotted the "bag" shooter. Gaining a quick height advantage I dodged a merge, pulled hard up and over and caught him on his pull out. Rolling left I pumped two seconds of AP from all eight guns into his belly as he floundered near a stall, and that was the end of my advantage. He outclimbed, out turned, out rolled and out dove my every effort. Three times over this past week I've entered a turning fight with a 109 and lost each one when they were able to pull inside my turn.

The Spit also seems to have a nasty side-slip problem. As I tallied a target and tried to set up a flat turning fight that was the Spits only advantage, I found that the nose begins to slip upward causing the outside wing to stall, which then flips the Spit on its back. Also tried two barrel rolls that used to be easy at any speed above 200 mph, but both times I nearly stalled as the Spit decelerated rapidly. Lost energy = getting your ass shot off.

All in all besides the eye candy smoke and fire effects, not happy one bit about these changes. The Spit is sluggish, the flight controls are mushy and lack the responsivement they had before. I was in a fight last night that I did win, but as I manoeuvered to roll over top of a 109 in a close tight turning fight, I splapped the stick hard left to induce a roll, and was shocked at how slow the Spit responded. Felt like I was back in the Hurricane. This is a game changer, with slower roll and lower angle of attack wing stall characteristics, we will need to change our tactics. Twice this morning I tangled with 109s in a typical merge dogfight on more or less equal odds, but I didn't stand much of a chance, starting from Angels 15, co-alt with 109s, but after a couple of turns during which I just couldn't pull the Spit around like before, I could only look back to see the 109 cutting my turn, firing and hitting me repeatedly. I found myself down to Angels 8 and at their mercy with nothing left to do but tuck tail and run.

A high angle ambush might be the only remaining means to attack a 109, or as I seen today, four, five or even as many as six Spits chasing, hitting and yet not able to quickly dispatch the opposition.

Did I mention that I'm not happy with these changes, oh yeh, guess I made that point already.

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Re: Learning to fly with TF 4.3

Post  AKA_Recon on Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 am

Wolverine wrote:I'm willing to bet that the problem was the new stall characteristics when pulling hard turns.

We'll have to practice the lag pursuit method of catching an opponent. We're used to pulling hard to try and gain a high deflection shot against an enemy with inferior turn.

While we still have very good turn rates, that advantage disappears as we lose our airspeed. So if you pull hard for that deflection shot, you might get it but very quickly you'll start to lose control. Instead, follow just behind his tail and wait him out. You'll easily be able to keep the turn, and you'll lose less speed and remain in control. Eventually, he will lose too much air speed and be unable to keep his turn, or you will eventually be able to get into a firing position as the circling continues.

Good stuff, I need to remember this as well.
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Spitfire FM

Post  Speed on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:32 pm

After my previous post gushing about my new found love of the Spit FM and splendid success rate against the humble Bf109, I spent the weekend getting my head handed to me on a plate. As anyone who studies statistics will tell you, a series of random successes will invariably revert to a series of random failures and ultimately balance out over the long run. Seems I couldn't do anything right, despite some victories, crazy flying and flying to the Spitfire's strengths, the dogfight gods were against me all weekend. I'm ever so humble once again.

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Re: Learning to fly with TF 4.3

Post  GloriousRuse on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:16 pm

Speaking from the 109 side:

You do have a significant bonus at altitude now with the spit. Those big wings really help out at the contrail heights...both sides engines are struggling, but your surface area means that unless you flip hard you'll keep more energy per maneveur way up high than a 109 will.

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High Altitude

Post  Speed on Thu May 01, 2014 5:53 pm

Thanks for that and I must admit that since the latest patch hit the streets most of the action has been under 15K feet. I ventured up to Angels 23 to 25 on a couple of occasions but didn't run into a dance partner so no first hand experience yet with the new FM at altitude. So long as I can keep it from stalling, should be interesting to adapt the longer curves while maintaining airspeed up with the contrails.

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Re: Learning to fly with TF 4.3

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