Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

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Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  AbortedMan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:26 am

I'm stressed.

I can't seem to figure out what is what on the convergence/loadout screen. I know what vert/horizontal convergence is and how it works, but the problem is that I keep hearing that the values are reversed for horizontal and vertical, and that they're not...mixed signals everywhere. Any test I do vs AI doesn't seem to give any proof or results. Very frustrating. Need help/proof.

It's also apparent that my convergence settings in quick missions are all out of whack. I'm assuming the convergence number in the loadout menu is in meters and needs to be converted to yards once in the cockpit? I've been playing for a couple months and doing fine. Its these last couple of days that I've been really honing in on practicing my distances and firing positions with different convergences.

I definitely need some help/confirmation/test methods...anything.
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  ATAG_Catseye on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:26 am

AbortedMan wrote:I'm stressed.

I can't seem to figure out what is what on the convergence/loadout screen. I know what vert/horizontal convergence is and how it works, but the problem is that I keep hearing that the values are reversed for horizontal and vertical, and that they're not...mixed signals everywhere. Any test I do vs AI doesn't seem to give any proof or results. Very frustrating. Need help/proof.

I definitely need some help/confirmation/test methods...anything.

S! AbortedMan,
YES - the convergences are definitely reversed from the beginning and up to the current patch. The next patch is supposed to be resolving the issue by simply changing the name in the menu.

There are several theories on convergence regarding the "cone" of bullet travel.
Here are a couple of them:
Horizontal: 250 Vertical: 250 allows for a deeper cone for more distance shooting.
Horizontal: 150 Vertical: 150 allows for close in knife fight.

However . . . . you can also have

Horizontal: 25o Vertical: 400 allows for a greater rise before the drop of the bullet
or . . .
Horizontal: 150 Vertical: 300 allows for a greater rise before the drop of the bullet - efficient for pulling less lead in a turning fight.

Regarding yds and metres: Best to convert your yds to metres and place that number in the setup.
eg., 250 yds = 228 metres: Place 228 in your settings and choose 250 yds in your gunsight setup.

Also, you can find all your guns setups in the folder: MyDocuments/il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover/user.ini - there you can make wholesale changes and give names to your different setups.

For example: here are my settings for the Spit and Hurri Horizontal: 183.0681 Vertical: 370.3281

conv _Gun03 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0681 370.3281
conv _Gun06 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0281 370.3282
conv _Gun00 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0081 370.3282
conv _Gun01 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0281 370.3281
conv _Gun07 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0081 370.3281
conv _Gun02 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0481 370.3282
conv _Gun05 Gun.Browning303MkII 183.0481 370.3281

My settings are a little more complex for a number of reasons but I think that you will get the concept.

Hope this helps.
Catseye

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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  Wolverine on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:23 pm

When in doubt, check our training section!

Robo posted a great account of convergence and bullet selection here: http://401squadron.canadaboard.net/t72-raf-gunnery-and-ammunition-information

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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  AbortedMan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Thanks for the info. This is the very stuff that I'm toying with right now. I guess I should specify that my main issue is firing at aircraft while I'm in lag/lead pursuit just behind them in convergence range.

I'm not sure if it's an issue of the latest patch disabling the "flash" hit notifiers on rounds hitting aircraft or if I'm just really that bad of a shot, it's taking me FOREVER to deal significant damage to the quick mission AI in 110's from my Hurricane. I'm hoping it's simple as there's some sort of method of measurement to use with the gunsight while engaging an aircraft in a combat oriented turn. Maybe it's just been a matter of getting the feel for leading the target and getting proficient at "eyeballing" it, and I'm sucking hard.

Currently, at the speed and rate of turn the AI usually executes once I'm in convergence range (250-280 yards in a Hurricane, I've been shifting back and forth) I see rounds making contact if I put their aircraft just under the gunsight circle and just above my engine cowl, almost out of visual...but it's very inconsistent and I cannot figure out why. It could be my garbage joystick, which will be remedied next friday when I purchase a Logitech G940, or I'm trying to lead incorrectly, either way it's frustrating to realize how hard it actually is. It makes me think all of my previous kills on the ATAG server were just luck.

I just found a "live firing range" mission someone made while bored at work. I'll try it at home and see if it offers any real training environment.
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  ATAG_Catseye on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:40 pm

S! AbortedMan,

One thing I found helpful in a turning fight was to have my vertical convergence set longer. This means that I don't have to pull as much lead. It will take some experimenting. When I was using 150 yds. horizontal, I started with Vertical at 300 yds. and ended up with Vertical at 225 yds. for a compromise. It meant having to aim a bit low when dead six on the target but when turning it meant I could keep the target coloser to the bottom of the circle. ie., less lead pulled.

Yes, the next patch is supposed to have the flashes back which helps me a great deal.

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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  AbortedMan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:50 pm

All this tinkering I'm doing with the Hurricane is making me love it more and more. It's so ridiculously stable while firing and smaller intricate flight control adjustments when compared to the Spitfire. I just hope the coming patch puts it back in a competitive FM realm.
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  ATAG_Catseye on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:58 pm

AbortedMan wrote:All this tinkering I'm doing with the Hurricane is making me love it more and more. It's so ridiculously stable while firing and smaller intricate flight control adjustments when compared to the Spitfire. I just hope the coming patch puts it back in a competitive FM realm.

She is a beaut alright.
I never paid attention to the Hurri over all the years as I was always in love with the Spit for so many reasons. If the newest patch would bring the Hurri close to actual performance (and all the others), it is surprising how well it can perform against a 109 in the right circumstances. I've really gotten to love it and prefer to fly it over the Spitfire. Funny how things change!
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  AbortedMan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:37 pm

So I just realized that my belt settings aren't being used in Quick Missions/Single Missions. I tested by changing up the tracer round colors but not seeing the difference once in game. I'm assuming the quick missions aren't using my custom convergence either, which would explain my extreme confusion during all my different experiments.
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  StiC on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:35 am

I should have realized this was your problem. I sort of went through the same thing. The only way I found to ghange loadout in SP quick mission was back out to the main menu / options / plane.

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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  AbortedMan on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:25 am

Not even that is working. My tracers/loadouts stay the same no matter what I do or where I change the value. I'm convinced my convergence isn't changing either. Weak.
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Re: Apparently need help with convergence/aiming...

Post  ATAG_Catseye on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:45 am

AbortedMan wrote:Not even that is working. My tracers/loadouts stay the same no matter what I do or where I change the value. I'm convinced my convergence isn't changing either. Weak.

In order to permit changing loadouts in the Quick Missions, I opened the quick mission in the FMB renamed it and placed it in the single missions folder.

Then it will adapt to the loadout settings you set in the OPTIONS menu. Every time you need to change loadout in a singles mission you need to change it in the Options menu for the aircraft you are flying. This really needs fixing.

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